by the Reverend Mother
This is an answer to the comment left by Rose on my blogpost: Convention News, dated 2/27/10.
Thank you for your comments. I appreciate that you took the time to respond. You seem to be coming from a presupposition that I can’t quite put my finger on, but it appears to be one that simply precludes accepting anything that is Christian in nature and makes your comments sound a bit random. Nonetheless, I will try to answer them in the order you made them.
–This country was not founded on Christianity – it is nice that you looked to historical information, which by the way is not factual, to prove your point. But please remember that there were indigenous peoples as well as other migrations long before the “Christians” as you would frame them “discovered” and “founded” this country.–
1. There absolutely were ‘indigenous’ people here – what was their country founded on? By the time America was founded Europeans had been here for 150 years. Not exactly a Johnny-come-lately group.
–In addition, those who founded this country were not necessarily Christian (for example, read a bit more about Thomas Jefferson and his deist beliefs)–
1. True, not all of the founders were confessing Christians. But they lived in a culture that governed itself by Christian principles. And so they were also constrained by those principles. Please see the Thomas Jefferson quote below.
— or further….recognize that Patrick Henry is not even proven (or even likely) to have said the two pieces of “evidence” you quoted.–
1. I only used one, not two, quotes and you’re absolutely correct, I did not track down the provenance of that quote until today and it looks like no one ever said it. There are so-called Christians who make-up, or do not investigte the veracity of the quotes they use. I apologize for doing the same, because I do not want to be counted among that number.
2. To make up for my blunder I humbly offer the following quotes:
“The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity.” John Adams
“Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.” John Jay
“God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel” Benjamin Franklin
“The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount. The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings we get from Exodus and Saint Matthew, from Isaiah and Saint Paul. I don’t think we emphasize that enough these days. If we don’t have a proper fundamental moral background, we will finally end up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the State.” Woodrow Wilson quoting Harry S. Truman.
“The God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and that His justice cannot sleep forever.” Thomas Jefferson
“We recognize no Sovereign but God, and NO King but Jesus!” John Hancock
“Why is it that, next to the birthday of the Savior of the world, your most joyous and most venerated festival returns on this day [the Fourth of July]?” “Is it not that, in the chain of human events, the birthday of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birthday of the Savior? “That it forms a leading event in the progress of the Gospel dispensation? Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer’s mission upon earth? That it laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity”? John Quincy Adams
–Despite the quotes you recognized as your great evidence to support your prayers that may have excluded other beliefs you also fail to recognize the context-and potentially accurate language-in which they were actually discussed, and also failed to acknowledge that it would be very ironic that the the same Mr. Henry had actually spoken of a “nation” that afforded “peoples of other faiths” the “freedom of worship.” actually said these quotes in the first place. Please open your mind, love, and your world to others and their beliefs rather than judging…..it would be as Jesus would have wanted it.-
1. Again, I only used one quote, so I am unsure what you are saying here by ‘quotes’.
2. How did I exclude other beliefs? Did I not make it clear with my ersatz quote that I wanted to be inclusive?
3. I think you are saying that I took a quote that doesn’t exist out of context. I am unsure how to answer that, but if you want to discuss the above quotes and their contexts, I would be willing.
4. A nation that actually was Christian would be a safe place for people of other faiths to practice their beliefs. Because you know what Jesus would have wanted, by your own admission, I am persuaded that you understand that Christianity requires us to let our neighbors dwell peaceably beside us.